Sick chondro... what you guys think?

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ohhwataloser

Sick chondro... what you guys think?

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Posts: 36

(03/30/08 12:03:56)

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Chondro at my girlfriends work. biak type about 2-3 years old. completly healthy yesterday. today i notice he was on the ground and was like alrite should be easy to get him out of the cage for a change (normally the whole setup get torn apart trying to get him out) so i take him out and he basically dead, no lower body response, very little head movement, it takes him a while but he can lift his upper half of the body up, but his heads upside down and stuff. no tounge flickering. it seems to be IBD symptoms to me but can it really hit that fast? i mean yesterday he was 100% acting normal. sad part is, he has a roommate a little girl about 2 years old, shes fine right now.

im pretty sure its obvious nerve damage, what else can cause it, i would hate to think its IBD

and another thing, this was the most untouched snake in the store, he bite, had a temper, no one took him out but me and who ever cleaned his cage. it not like he could of got handled by some infected person or was around any stray snakes, just him and his roommate.

Last Edited By: ohhwataloser 03/30/08 12:21:59. Edited 1 time.

Kim Burge

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Posts: 1460

(03/30/08 13:26:22)

ezOP

I'm really sorry to hear about this! Why does this kind of thing always happen on the weekend when it's hard to get in touch with a good vet? I'd remove the girl from the cage ASAP and thoroughly disinfect the cage before putting her back in it. Is he still alive? Assuming this is an imported snake it could be so many different things that I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of IBD. It's possible the female was a carrier of something and gave it to him, especially if she was an import as well. This is very sad to hear and I really feel for you both. If he's lost consciousness, I'm really sorry to say that there isn't much hope. The only way you might find out what went wrong was to have a necropsy performed. FYI - They can be expensive and inconclusive.

It's a very sad day when a chondro dies...

Kim Burge
Southern Chondros
kimberly@southernchondros.com

ohhwataloser

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Posts: 37

(03/30/08 16:28:37)

hes still alive but not in good shape

i don't know if their imported but they both been there for atleast a year, mayb longer, chondros are hard to sell in a little pet shop i guess.

i was just wondering what else could cause nerve damage like that, yea there won't be a necropsy

Lyons155

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Posts: 7

(03/30/08 18:45:10)

I am soo sorry to hear abought this,

Was their an exterminator in the office recently???? I know it is unlikely that it would only affect one snake but it does happen..... GTPs like all snakes do not fair well with pest-poison,

Keep us posted
Mike

rksmrz

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Posts: 8

(03/30/08 23:07:22)

I just hope it doesn't turn out to be anything like what happened to this young lady.

Respiratory virus in ball pythons...

« on: December 12, 2007, 02:24:01 AM »

Quote

Please read this blog entry -- I am hoping to spread information about this virus and what I went through so that no one else ever has to go through this:

blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=204825&blogID=336374504

Last Edited By: rksmrz 03/30/08 23:14:00. Edited 2 times.

Kim Burge

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Posts: 1461

(03/31/08 09:03:45)

ezOP

Paramyxovirus is a really scary thing and I haven't heard of a case of it in chondros but it's certainly not impossible. Mike is right that it could have been exposed to something airborne in the store and was more sensitive to it than his cage mate.

If the snake is still alive have they considered taking it to a vet?? If he's still alive I would be on the phone yesterday leaving a message that this snake needs to be ASAP if he's still alive today.

Kim Burge
Southern Chondros
kimberly@southernchondros.com

ohhwataloser

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Posts: 38

(03/31/08 12:17:28)

he isn't going to call a vet, its a money thing, its for sale at a pet store, not in a privet collection, me and her boss don't see things the same way, trust me if it was me, it woulda been at the vets yesterday.

besides the loose geckos, no exterminators.

i donno at a store i guess it could be anything.

god there really isn't alot of info on snake illness, its hard to find any info on anything.

Last Edited By: ohhwataloser 03/31/08 12:53:56. Edited 1 times.

Kim Burge

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Posts: 1463

(03/31/08 12:52:35)

ezOP

I think it's great that you've tried to help as much as you can but I don't really think there's much that can be done. Has he tried fluids? I sure hope he doesn't still have it out on display. If it's suffering, he could at least put him out of his misery. Without having some idea of what this chondro has died from I wouldn't touch the cage mate with a 10 ft pole! Maybe he would consider not selling chondros in his store after this?? I'm sorry you and your girlfriend are having to watch this happen.

I really don't think some reptiles, like chondros, should be sold at pet stores. I'm sure there are exceptions to this but they probably aren't the norm.

Kim Burge
Southern Chondros
kimberly@southernchondros.com

ohhwataloser

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Posts: 39

(03/31/08 13:01:40)

well i realized this when the store was closing yesterday and hes closed today for food delivers but im sure the fate of the chondro was made this morning, and if i know him, if the snake an't doing better today is going to be put out of its misery.

yea i will defently stay away from that stack of cages. i donno how hes gonna handle it, won't be selling her anytime soon, but he also said he doesn't want to move her or him around to make sure theres no risk of spreading w/e it is. hes also got a breeding trio of chondros, so i don't think he'll stop selling them, won't they won't be anywhere near that side of the store.

up to him really, i have no say in anything, not my store.

4/2/08
to update her bossing ended up putting the chondro down

, their cage was bleach cleaned and the girl will be not for sale for quite a while and a close eye kept on her

Last Edited By: ohhwataloser 04/02/08 12:51:58. Edited 1 times.

Kim Burge

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Posts: 1469

(04/02/08 12:57:28)

ezOP

I would recommend following the bleaching with an ammonia treatment (rinsed very well in between). Soak it for at least 10mins as this will kill the things bleach won't. I'm sorry to hear about this fate but happy to hear that he's not suffering any more. Thanks for the update.

Kim Burge
Southern Chondros
kimberly@southernchondros.com

chondrogirl

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Posts: 52

(04/02/08 13:27:10)

Aside from IBD and paramyxo, there's also VEBS (Viral Encephalitis of Boid Snakes). Many of these exhibit similar if not identical symptoms. Unfortunately, being a virus, all are incurable and always fatal. I'm REALLY sorry to hear about this. I recently lost a femal that went 95% limp (excluding some upper body movement like you viewed), no tongue flicking was observed, etc. I kept her alive for 2 full weeks, although i'm not sure how humane that was in retrospect. I feel for ya man. She showed signs of loose coils for about a day and a half, then she retreated to to the cage floor (it was THAT fast). I tried to pull her for a looksee and she struck, but it was half-assed. Her head came crashing down on the cage floor as if she had no way of slowing her approach. It was all downhill from there...we kept her well hydrated with normasol and upped her tank temps a smidge, but to no avail. I too suspected one of the above culprits. Some are more common in boas, but hit pythons faster and with extreme prejudice. Sorry, and good luck.

James

ohhwataloser

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Posts: 42

(04/02/08 13:57:30)

well in case someone is using this for reference....

to add another factor i completly forgot about, about 2-3 months ago, the pet store was broken into and many animal were stolen (including the chondros), without getting into detail, the guy was caught and arreasted and 95% of the animals were returned.

so who knows what the chondros could of been exposed to.

is there any symptoms that differ in any of the above named, that could possibly tell one apart form another?

chondrogirl

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Posts: 53

(04/02/08 22:57:33)

I don't believe so. They all cover a myriad of symptoms and such, from repetitive RI's to motor function issues, and everything inbetween. From my experience, as well as my herp vet's confirmation, I do believe the only way to determine which may be the definitive problem requires extensive/expen$ive post-mortem testing (about $1K per animal). For these tests they literally dice the snake longitudinally every cm or so, from head to tail. At this pont the best thing to do is separate anyone believed to be infected, keep boas well away from the pythons, quarantine the more expensive animals, and be certain to not cross-contaminate. I use a combination of bleach and Nolvasan. I even microwave the sponge inbetween cages (2 min on high setting). This is a little trick I learned during a stint as a nutritionist from a doctor friend of mine. Again, sorry about the predicament; I know how stressful things get when you worry about the threat any one of these viruses bring to the table. Quite a pickle indeed...

James

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