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Any suggestions on how to avoid fights with those that desprately want to have them with me would be welcome. There is no possilbe motive other than a discussion of information so I'm not sure how anyone feels their intelligence is insulted - c'mon now, I'm not going to engage on this level and it is not useful.

I expected people to call and email and find their own data sources - which would probably put a slightly firmer grasp on the estimate. You'll find that they vary quite a bit and there are numerous reports (especailly of the bush govt variety) that use incorrect data, or so says Jennifer Fearing.

There is no single source for these numbers (9/11, etc) and the data is now split, so in taking numbers from several different orgs (which all differ a bit) and making a best guess is all that can be done - hence my IMO preface. There are no hard facts to be had here - just ranges of estimate. Then you need to add a "reasonable" smuggled percentage.

The point of the 25K-30K number and the 800 cbb in indo babies is the math = 3.2%

On a 5K number the math is 16% but the basic point that is being illustrated remains the same.

The object is not to nail down an impossible to nail number but to illustrate a point.

All imported animals are labeled as "farmed/cbb" when in fact a small percentage of them actually are, the vast majority (use 97%, use 84% the point is the same) are not. This could also be referred to as the Indonesian government fraud rate. When you incldue that mnay of the truly farmed animals never make ti to the public for sale market the math gets more illustrative.

This means that most folks that seek to form an opinion on "farmed" animals are unlikely to aquire them via the secondary marekt but will believe that they have.

Right? Feel free to disagree, feel free to make a vigorous point but please stop trying to pick a fight, if you want to scream at me then call me, stop wasting band.

R.